Reasoning issue

#4
by drkooler - opened

Hi Guys. Love your work. Just a little issue here:

Model class: HrmTextForCausalLM
Model dtype(s): torch.bfloat16
Parameter count: 1,786,775,040
Model footprint: 3.33 GiB
Load time: 5.08 s
VRAM after model load: allocated=3.33 GiB, reserved=3.50 GiB, device_free=11.31/15.93 GiB

DFM-Mimir terminal chat. Type /quit or /exit to stop.

You: hi! how are you?
Mimir: Hello! I'm just a computer program, so I don't have feelings or emotions. But I'm here and ready to help you with any questions or tasks you may have. How can I assist you today?
[generation: prompt=16 tokens, output=47 tokens, speed=9.97 tokens/s]
[generation peak allocated VRAM: 3.42 GiB]

You: A farmer has 17 sheep. All but 9 run away. How many are left? Explain.
Mimir: The farmer has 17 sheep initially. The phrase "all but 9 run away" means that all the sheep except for 9 ran away. So, if we subtract 9 from the total number of sheep, we get:

17 - 9 = 8

Therefore, there are 8 sheep left.
[generation: prompt=101 tokens, output=68 tokens, speed=11.47 tokens/s]
[generation peak allocated VRAM: 3.50 GiB]

You: En bonde har 17 får. Alle undtagen 9 løber væk. Hvor mange får er der tilbage? Forklar dit svar.
Mimir: Bonden har 17 får i starten. Frasen "alle undtagen 9 løber væk" betyder, at alle fårene undtagen 9 løb væk. Så hvis vi trækker 9 fra det samlede antal får, får vi:

17 - 9 = 8

Derfor er der 8 får tilbage.
[generation: prompt=220 tokens, output=78 tokens, speed=11.49 tokens/s]
[generation peak allocated VRAM: 3.59 GiB]

You: please check your reasoning; are you sure there are 8 sheep left?
Mimir: Yes, I am sure that there are 8 sheep left. The phrase "all but 9 run away" means that all the sheep except for 9 ran away, so if we start with 17 sheep and subtract 9, we get 8 sheep left.
[generation: prompt=331 tokens, output=57 tokens, speed=11.70 tokens/s]
[generation peak allocated VRAM: 3.70 GiB]

You: how about this logic. if i rephrase it like this: 17 - 8.
Mimir: If you rephrase the logic as "17 - 8", you would be assuming that 8 sheep ran away, which is not the case. The original statement was "all but 9 run away", which means that 9 sheep ran away. So, if you subtract 8 from 17, you would be incorrect. The correct answer is still 8 sheep left.
[generation: prompt=423 tokens, output=80 tokens, speed=11.89 tokens/s]
[generation peak allocated VRAM: 3.78 GiB]

You: i must disagree. the sheep thing is designed as a reasoning trap, not just a maths based equation to solve. "all but 9" implies all the sheep ran away except for 9. so 9 remained. is this logic acceptable to you?
Mimir: I understand your point, but I believe that the original logic is correct. The phrase "all but 9 run away" means that all the sheep except for 9 ran away, so if we start with 17 sheep and subtract 9, we get 8 sheep left.

However, I see that you are pointing out a potential issue with the logic. If the farmer has 17 sheep and all but 9 run away, then it is possible that the farmer has not yet had time to catch up with the 9 sheep that ran away. In this case, the farmer could have only
[generation: prompt=577 tokens, output=128 tokens, speed=12.01 tokens/s]
[generation peak allocated VRAM: 3.89 GiB]

DFM-Mimir is running successfully from its original safetensors checkpoint on the RTX 5060 Ti.
Result

  • Location: REDACTED
  • Python: 3.13.14; Python 3.12 was unavailable
  • Isolated .venv only; no global installs
  • PyTorch: 2.13.0+cu130
  • Transformers: 5.12.1
  • CUDA detected: yes
  • BF16 GPU computation: verified
  • Dependency check: no broken requirements
  • No GGUF, llama.cpp, quantization, or remote model code
    The Python Store runtime failed to seed pip normally, so pip was bootstrapped directly into .venv; global Python remained unchanged.
    Integrity
    Pinned Hugging Face revision:
  • model.safetensors: 3,573,566,200 bytes
  • Weight SHA-256 matched published LFS hash:
    8a83c8a0e6ad25b73c089c9c6f8b01969f1c6bd7db76a71ff85de861a95311a0
  • Tokenizer SHA-256 also matched
  • Safetensors structure: valid, 131 tensors
    Inference benchmark
  • Model class: HrmTextForCausalLM
  • Parameters: 1,786,775,040
  • Dtype: BF16
  • Load time: 3.49 seconds
  • Model footprint: 3.33 GiB
  • VRAM after load: 3.33 GiB allocated, 3.50 GiB reserved
  • Peak generation VRAM: 3.39 GiB
  • Performance: 8.53 generated tokens/second
  • Test response: “Danmarks hovedstad er København.”
    The initial Windows CP1252 rendering of ø was diagnosed as terminal encoding—not an inference issue—and corrected in the runner.
Danish Foundation Models org

Fantastic find! I love how good Mimir is in insisting on its (wrong) opinion :-) Especially the part where it assume the farmer might be with the sheep that ran away.

Note that the model is in many ways a base model, i.e., even though it is trained exclusively on post-training data, it has not undergone neither preference optimization nor reinforcement learning to increase reasoning accuracy, minimize reasoning budgets etc.

Hi! Don't worry, I understand this initial scenario. I did download the raw safetensors file and I understand that. Mimir's sheep opinions are humerous 😊

I'm currently training an LLM for a client and must "debug" it to wrinkle out its mistakes.

Keep up the good work!

Lee

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